Problem Solved: The IISE Podcast

Here's the problem.

Industrial engineers are really good
at optimizing systems, improving

efficiency and maximizing output.

But what if we start treating our own
lives like production lines, pushing

harder, doing more, and running at full
capacity with no design for recovery?

After all, we are often told
that's the path to success.

But all too often that leads to burnout,
which can feel like a personal failure.

So what's the solution?

Today we're talking with Aly Kamel,
who wrote an article for ISE magazine

called Finding Meaning and Balance
through Industrial Engineering about

how ISE thinking can actually help
us design more sustainable lives, not

just more productive ones, because
the most important system you'll

ever optimize might just be yourself.

Welcome to Problem Solved.

Well, today's conversation is a little
bit different and very intentional.

We talk a lot on problem solved
about optimizing systems, processes,

and organizations, but what
happens when the system you are

trying to design is your own life?

Our guest today is Aly Kamel,
an industrial and management

engineering student at the Arab
Academy for Science and Technology.

Ali has completed six Sigma white and
yellow belt certifications, and he's.

Deeply interested in the intersection
of engineering efficiency

and human-centered designs.

So what really stood out to us is how
Ali applies industrial engineering

principles, not just to coursework or
industry problems, but to questions

of balance, burnout, and meaning.

He recently wrote an article for ISE
magazine called Finding Meaning and

Balance through Industrial Engineering.

And in this article he reframes ISE as a
mindset for designing a sustainable life.

So Ali, welcome to Problem Solved, and
we're really glad that you're here.

Yeah, thanks, Elizabeth.

It's, it's been, you know, like really.

Opportunity to be joining
you in this podcast.

So before we get into systems and
frames work, can you tell our listeners

where are you joining us from today?

Yeah.

I'm joining you today from Egypt.

I, I'm a student in the, double ISE
chapter 7 0 1, which is based in the

Arab Academy for Science and Technology.

the main camps.

That's so neat.

We really appreciate all of
our international members and

international listeners, so that's
really, really neat to hear.

And when you're not studying
or thinking about systems, what

helps you reset and recharge?

What do you like to do?

Well, it's actually a couple of things.

I like to actually hang out and,
live like a normal teen's life.

I also like to go to a gym.

I like training a lot.

also I, in my really, really, really
free time, I just, look at the world.

I mean, I just sit
around the, the balcony.

I just

kinda breathe and take it in.

Yeah, moment of relaxation.

So, as we said, you are a student now,
but let's, rewind a bit and talk about

when you first stepped into the field.

So when you first entered industrial
engineering, what did you think that

the discipline was going to be about
and how close or how far away was that

from the reality that you experienced?

Well, I actually thought at first,
industrial engineering was mostly about

efficiency, reducing time, cutting waste.

Putting productivity on paper.

And I think that's just a part of it.

And the reality of it is actually
deeper knowing that, I mean, I'm

in the field now, I'm in the field,
I'm studying and just exploring

more and more topics in the field.

also it's actually about decision making
under constraints and understanding the

system where the system actually includes
people, not just actually processes.

The realization of that actually
completely changed how I see the field.

So, was there a specific moment,
either in or out of the classroom when

you realized that ISE wasn't just a
technical skill, but it was a way of

thinking about other areas of life?

I think there actually like a moment.

There was actually a moment
that I was treating myself as

a machine, not a human system.

Yeah, that's when ISC stopped being
just coursework and became most

importantly a lens for self-awareness.

For example, during my recent
final exams that actually have been

just really, really daunting me, I
realized I was treating my study study

schedule as a manufacturing plant.

I wasn't just, you know, like
studying and just putting the pen

and paper to the test or something.

I was optimizing my energy, le
energy levels, managing inputs

and trying to maximize my goal.

My grade outputs as much as possible.

Of course.

So your end goal was the grade, so
that makes sense because finals are

like a really, really intense activity.

Yeah.

You would notice those parallels.

Like if you're not giving yourself
enough recovery time, you would have

poor performance and that kind of thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That makes sense.

So do you think that like, engineers
and other maybe high, high achieving

problem solvers, do you think that
they're especially prone to like burnout

during like really intense activities?

Yeah, I think so actually, because.

Yeah,

we as humans, engineers and high
problem solvers or high achieving

people are actually trained to push
systems to their absolute limits

and optimize them continuously.

The problem is that we often apply
to that mindset inward without

accounting for human limits.

We actually like push ourselves more
than usual, more than our limits.

So what happens is that we
confuse discipline with constant

pressure, and that's a really
fast path to burnout, I think.

Right?

Yeah, because that's, it's just
kind of a built-in way of thinking.

That's kind of what.

It's kind of what we're told.

That's the path to success.

Yeah.

Is just to always, always push
yourself farther and farther.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So let's, let's talk about the article
that you wrote for ISE magazine.

It's called Finding Meaning and
Balance through Industrial Engineering.

Can you just kind of recap
your article quickly?

My article, explains how industrial
engineering methods can actually

help students find balance
students, not just students.

Not everyone else in life find balance
and purpose in their daily lives.

So treating life like a system where
you can manage time perf carefully

and perfectly, and focus on activities
that actually add real value.

A key part of this is the input process,
output model, which actually like turns

unclear goals into healthy routines.

By setting up clear priorities
and taking intentional breaks.

Eventually this process or this approach
shows that true efficiency is about doing

the right things while understanding the
people like machines, which actually a

coat cannot run as supposed to be forever.

Right.

People are not machines.

Yeah.

I enjoyed your article
and it resonated with me.

maybe because I read it at the beginning
of the new year and sort of at the

new year is when you're sort of making
goals to, you know, better yourself.

Yeah.

And it sort of had a really
holistic approach and so, it, it

resonated with me and it probably
resonated with a lot of people.

So while most of our listeners are.

Industrial engineers.

But for those who may not be familiar
with, the model input process

output, could you just briefly
explain how that's used in industry?

Thinking of analogy right
now, but I don't know.

Maybe, maybe like something
making, making a tea or something.

Maybe baking a cake.

I think baking a cake
is actually like better.

Yeah.

So there's actually like more inputs.

So.

Baking a cake actually requires
inputs, process, and outputs.

So first I'm gonna talk about the
inputs, which are actually like the

ingredients in general flour, sugar, eggs.

secondly, the process is
like the recipe in the oven.

If the output, which is the cake
itself tastes, tastes bad or something,

or just tastes stale or whatever.

We just don't yell and
shout at it for being bad.

We look at the recipe, we look at the
inputs and just, decide what happened, and

maybe like, check if the eggs were wrong
for something, or maybe the sugar expired

or maybe the flour expired actually too.

So the main goal is to fix
the cause so that the result

takes, takes care of itself.

And I think we rarely apply
this logic to ourselves.

I think you're right that once
you think about it, it really

does seem like a, a very logical
metaphor to apply it to ourselves.

But I think a lot of people
don't really quite see it.

But once you reframe that
same model input, process

output in your personal life.

What does that look like when
the system is you as a person?

Well, if when the system is me or
like human or humans or you, the

inputs become like sleep, energy,
focus and the environment itself.

I think the process is how you work
or how you think and how you recover.

It's like just the, the, the
thing that you actually like.

Do.

the output isn't just like something like
certifications, grades, or achievements,

maybe some research, I don't know.

But I think it's actually like clarity,
health and long term term growth.

if the inputs are poor.

Well, no amount of discipline
faces the output, which is the

thing I explained with the cake.

The cake analogy.

The last question.

Yeah.

So like I said, I mean, it's
a much more holistic approach.

So is, can you think of like a real life?

Example that maybe you can walk us
through, walk the listeners through, maybe

in your personal life, maybe a moment
where you realized something in your

life was inefficient or unsustainable
or misaligned, and how you re redesigned

that system for a better output.

Well, there was this moment when I
decided to transfer my major in college.

So industrial management, engineering,

at first I was on a different path and I
realized the system I was in, the courses

of that major and how my focus was like
at that time, wasn't aligned with how

I naturally think or solve problems.

I felt it was like forcing
output, a specific output into a

process that didn't fit my inputs.

Making that transfer wasn't easy for me.

It's required evaluating what I valued,
understanding where my skills and mindset

would actually thrive, and also designing
a path that made sense long term.

I think that decision taught me
a lot about personal systems and

that sometimes best optimization
isn't changing what you're doing.

But redesigning the system itself
to match your inputs and strength.

After that, I think everything I
approached felt like more intentional.

So in industry, the term value added
is pretty clear, but how did you

learn to define value added activities
in life, especially when they don't

always look productive on paper.

I think one moment that actually stood out
at that value added question was realizing

how small choices compound over time.

I think I started auditing my time
like, in like a inventory check

out, asked a simple question like
every hangout after I would say, did

this energize me or this drain me?

I realized the things I was doing.

Like leisure or do doom scrolling that
that term or maybe like something like

social events were out of obligation.

I thought they were
actually like high costs.

That gave me zero return, but

mm-hmm.

Turns out my thought
was actually like true.

I mean, once I cut the those out, the
system of my life ran more smoother

because I wasn't wasting fuel on
things that didn't move the needle.

Yeah.

Or I guess even like at the beginning
when I asked you what, what you

do to reset and recharge, and
you said just like sit outside.

Yeah.

And like take in the world.

Exactly.

Like that doesn't look
like value added on paper.

But you said that it's
something that recharges you.

Yeah.

So, so then it's value.

So, we've talked a lot
about efficiency, but.

How do you ensure the system is made for
meaning, not just getting stuff done,

and how do you choose what actually
goes into the sys, into the system?

I think it actually comes
down to the objectives.

Mm-hmm.

And maybe something like an engineering,
you could optimize a machine for speed

over, over precision this or that.

You could actually like rarely get both.

So, if you don't.

Get or choose meaning as your
goal, your brain defaults to

speed just become more faster,

right?

So what happens when people do optimize
speed or output instead of sustainability?

I think they get short term
winds and long-term damage.

The system actually like, it looks
sufficient, but it collapses at the end.

I think burnout isn't a personal
failure, I think it's more of a system

outcome or predictable system outcome.

So, I mean, what I really appreciate
about what you're saying is that

it, it, it does challenge the idea.

That more output is better because
that theme really shows up everywhere.

It's hard to get away from, but
like, I mean, like we said before,

humans are not machines and no system
can run at max capacity forever.

So there are a lot of high performers
probably listening to this episode.

There's students, there's people in
all stages of their career listening.

There's leaders, and it might feel natural
for them to push the limits because.

That, that's what we're
told the path to success is.

So how should we reconcile
ambition with human constraints?

Reflecting what right
said, the last question.

I think that students on high performance
and people in general often push past

limits without even realizing it.

But I think I found the key.

Is treating constraints as a part of
the design or the system, not obstacles.

Yeah,

which was, a really big problem.

I actually like noticed
during some part of my life.

It's also about choosing where to
invest energy and where to step back.

And so ambition doesn't come out,
at the cost of sustainability

by treating constraints as
design inputs, not weaknesses.

Ambition isn't recovery without strength.

I think it's more of poor system design.

Mm-hmm.

Sustainable ambition, respects, limits
and plans about them in practice, it

comes down to being intentional with how
I spend my time and resources, focusing

on what truly adds value rather than
stretching myself across everything.

Yeah.

You write about balance not
being a failure of discipline,

but a, a design choice.

Yeah.

And that's, that's a very powerful idea.

So can you unpack that just
a little bit more for us?

Yeah.

In my article, I frame balance as a lesson
saying, no production line can run at

maximum output without breaking down.

Yeah.

And neither can a student
or a high performer.

So therefore, recognizing limits
and scheduling breaks are not

failures of discipline, but they are
necessary for, for sustainability.

Instead of relying on willpower to push
through exhaustion, we must actively

design intentional pauses or breaks.

Into our routine to ensure long-term
success rather than burnout.

Exactly like a machine running in
a factory, we need to make it rest,

maybe maintenance, whatever it takes,
so that nothing unexpected happens.

Balance isn't just giving up,
it's choosing longevity of

and continuity over burnout.

Yeah.

So.

Going along with our analogy,
is there a risk in treating

life too much like a system?

I mean, can this analogy go too far?

And if so, where does
the analogy break down?

Yeah.

There's actually like
a risk of doing that.

I think if you try to optimize everything
in life, you become more of a robot,

like, not like a human, not like a human.

You can't optimize something like
a conversation with someone and, or

maybe something like a walk in a park,

driving a car, for example.

Mm-hmm.

Those things are valuable because
they are inefficient and unstructured.

I've learned that systems are
there to handle the logistics of

life so that you have the freedom
to enjoy the messy, unpredictable

parts in life without stress.

So I think you should use the system
to manage your work, not your joy.

So in a, in a factory we have
alarms and, and things like that,

that flash before, give us a
warning before the machines break.

So, What are the alarms in, in human life?

So how, how can our listeners
spot the warning signs before

their personal system breaks down?

I think signs like bad sleep or
irritability are the loud, loud alarms.

Yeah.

So

the sub subtle ones come first.

like something like dreading or dreading
hobbies and, Something you usually

enjoy and turning into something
numb, reflecting back to the factory.

When the, light flashes, when the red
light flashes, we shut down the machine

to fix it and life we tend to put the
tape over the light and keep running.

Oh.

So we have to, yeah.

We have to learn those
feelings as something as main

maintenance data, not weakness.

Yeah.

So we, we've covered a lot
here from systems thinking to

burnout, to sustainability.

Let's kind of close with some practical
advice for listeners who might

be feeling overwhelmed right now.

so if somebody is listening, a student
or professional, if they're kind

of feeling the, if it's resonating
with somebody and they're feeling

overwhelmed, where can they start to
apply what we've been talking about?

I think, I think something like fixing
their inputs, something again, like

sleep environment and expectations.

I think they don't really need to redesign
their whole life again from scratch, but

I think that they need to stabilize the
system first by fixing the, their inputs.

Of course.

Yeah.

And how do you think that we should
maybe, well, do you think that we

should redefine the word success?

And if so, how should we
redefine the word success?

Well, success should mean
consistency and not intensity for me.

Mm.

But a life that you can maintain
is actually like more impressive

that than one that looks briefly
good on paper and then collapses.

Mm-hmm.

I could relate to that,
to a, to a car engine.

When you red line a sports car
to 200 miles an hour, the engine

blows up after 10 minutes.

So that's not performance.

That's failure.

Mm-hmm.

Comparing that to a reliable car that
actually like, gets you to, to the, to the

destination you want every single day is
infinitely more valuable than a fast one

that spends all that time in the shop.

So we need to stop raising the
speed of the burnout and stop

raising the reliability of balance.

Yeah.

All right, so if you could leave our
listeners with one design principle for

their own lives, what would that be?

It is to design on the long run.

I mean, I think the most important
system you'll ever optimize

isn't your job or your career.

It's yourself.

Yeah.

It makes a lot of sense.

We've ta we, we went through
a lot of analogies today.

Yeah.

I mean, I know, I know.

From the cake and the decor and the, yeah.

So there are a lot.

That was great.

It was great.

Well, ally, this has been such a,
a great and thoughtful conversation

and I really appreciate it.

I know our listeners did too.

So thank you so much for being here
and thank you so much for sharing.

You're welcome.

Perspective with us.

Thanks.

If today's conversation resonated with
you, we encourage you to read Aly's

full article in ISE magazine from the
November, 2025 issue titled, finding

Meaning and Balance Through Industrial
Engineering, and as always, whether

you're optimizing a hospital system.

A supply chain or your own daily routine.

Every great solution is
a story worth telling.

Thanks to our guest Aly Kamel and thank
you for listening to Problem Solved.